Preterism and Post-Millennialism, the Preterist and Post Millennial views; Are they scriptural?
The Preterist and Post Millennial doctrines must include the prophecies of the Bible that are relevant and related to those views, which must also include the
timelines and historical facts.
As with all prophetic understanding, we can't leave anything out and must combine all related scripture to get the whole picture!
Click here for some very pointed questions to ask anyone who believes in Preterism or Post Milennialism
First of all, there are three related topics that are relevant to each other and this doctrine.
The specific time frame of 3.5 years we're given in several places in Bible Prophecy
The scriptures used for the doctrines of preterism and/or post millennial views
The 2000 year gap we see in several places in Biblical Prophecy
We're going to look at all of these topics.
To get started, let's look at the main premise of Preterist and Post Millennium views; The doctrine that General Titus of the Roman Empire fulfilled the prophecies from Jesus
in Matthew 24 when he destroyed the Temple in 70AD. He wasn't the Emperor yet in 70AD, but became Emperor of Rome in 79AD. The doctrine is that he was the Antichrist of
Revelation, and that he fulfilled the prophecies in Matthew 24 in 70AD.
There is a lot of diversity around these views, and many only subscribe to partial preterism, but this is the one place that subscribers to this doctrine all see the same.
What is the Abomination of Desolation - and did Titus fulfill this prophecy?
The Abomination of Desolation and the 3.5 year timeline
There are several scriptures that tell us about the Abomination of Desolation.
In Matthew 24, Jesus said the Abomination of Desolation would begin the Great Tribulation, and that He would return in the clouds with power and glory
immediately after the Tribulation.
Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation,
spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
... 21 then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
... 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened,
and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,
and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And THEN (Mark 13:27) he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather
together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The event Jesus is referring to in Matthew 24:15 is Daniel 9:27 and Daniel
11:31. The Antichrist will confirm the covenant for seven years and will be an
abomination to God and will make it (the holy place; the Temple) desolate in the middle of those final 7 years.
Take note of what the end of this prophecy brings:
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins,
and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Each "week" is a week of years, or a 7 year period. The prophecy will make an end of sins and will bring in everlasting righteousness and seal up the prophecy...
this will only be accomplished when God abolishes sin and destroys the wicked and sets up His kingdom, which we see in Revelation 20 and 21.
In the midst of the final "week", the middle of the final 7 years, is when this abomination of desolation will happen...
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to
cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Daniel 11 also shows us this abomination of desolation as it gives us details about the time of the rule of the Antichrist.
Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the
sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall
place the abomination that maketh desolate.
He will come to his end at the end of his rule...
Dan 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain;
yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
Daniel 11 is continued into Daniel 12 and gives us the time frame of this event.
Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven,
and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half;
and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people,
all these things shall be finished.
8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord,
what shall be the end of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up,
there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
So Daniel specifically tells us that this event will happen 3.5 years before "all these things shall be finished". (time (1 year), times (two years) and a half (half a year) = 3.5 years,
and 1290 days = 3.53 years)
are what Daniel 11 and into Daniel 12 just said. It's the time of the Antichrist who will "come to his end", and "at that time", "there will be a time of trouble such
as never was". This "time of trouble" is the same thing Jesus is referring to if we continue reading in Matthew 24:15 when He says "when we see the Abomination of Desolation
spoken of by Daniel the prophet", Mat 24:21
shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
So Daniel and Jesus together specifically say that the Abomination of Desolation will start the Great Tribulation and that it will last for 3.5 years.
There is no question that this is so, when we just read these passages and simply believe what it says in black and white.
This shows us that it will be the event in the middle of the final 7 years, and that it will begin the tribulation, which will end at the return of Christ,
which is when the Antichrist comes to his end (the end of these things).
This proves absolutely without a doubt, 100% surety, that we know for sure that this is all encapsulated in that final 3.5
years and will happen exactly as we are shown in the prophecies. It cannot be something that's already happened!
To see more documentation showing all the scriptures that show us this 3.5 year timeline, click here
But, if that's not enough, there's a LOT MORE scripture to prove it many times over!
Another place that gives us a hint as to what this Abomination of Desolation actually is, is found in 2 Thessalonians:
2 Thess 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God,
or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God,
shewing himself that he is God.
This event Paul is referring to in 2 Thessalonians is also the “abomination of
desolation”. Three and one half years after the confirmation of the covenant, he (the man of sin, the Antichrist)
will sit in the rebuilt temple of Jerusalem and claim to be God. Most believe
that he will claim to be all god’s and all messiahs. He will probably claim to
be the god of Islam, Buddhism, etc. When you see this happen, you will know
without a doubt that he is the Antichrist. Then the second half of the final week, the final 3.5 years begins, where he rules the world.
And other scriptures that show us the same 3.5 years where the Antichrist will be in power:
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws:
and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time (3.5 years).
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months (3.5 years).
In Revelation 12 we see that the devil will be cast to earth,
having great wrath because he knows his time is short, and that
it will be for a time, times and half a time in v.14 (3.5 years).
So, did Titus fulfill this?
Titus burned the temple and destroyed it after looting some of the artifacts, but Titus didn't do anything more than Nebuchadnezzar and his son did back in
the days of Daniel... Nor, was the time after Titus any more of a "tribulation" for the Jews than the time of Nebuchadnezzar, either.
Claiming that Titus placed the abomination and began the tribulation isn't factual nor does it even make sense in the context of the scriptures explaining it
and the timing we just read.
For one thing, this was all accomplished in one year, in 70AD. It didn't take 3.5 years for anything specifically relating to this destruction of the Temple and Titus at that time.
-= NOTE =- Some preterists say that the 1290 days is actually 1290 years but take note that the scriptures give us that time frame in several ways; 1290 days, time times and an half,
and 42 months. This diversity in the verbiage gives us the proof that it's actually 1290 days since the other scriptures show the same 3.5 year time frame.
And, notice that Daniel 7 (and Rev 13, Dan 11 and 12) show us that the Antichrist will "wear out" or "make war" with the saints. The saints of God are not the
Jews, the saints of God are those who love Jesus. The vast majority of Christians in that day were Greeks and Romans. Titus did not make war with the saints
and prevail against them as the Bible says the Antichrist will do! He sacked Jerusalem and destroyed the temple, which has nothing to do with the saints.
Second, if you've read Revelation 16:12 you know that it's the Kings of the East that come over the Euphrates river for the Battle of Armageddon.
Where is Rome in relation to Israel? It's
Third, what does the scriptures say happens immediately after the Tribulation? Did these happen in 70AD?
We have very specific events that we're shown will happen immediately after the Tribulation in Matthew 24 and Mark 13:
The sun, moon and stars go dark... no, this did not happen!
Jesus comes the in clouds with power and glory, as the lighting flashes across the sky... no, this did not happen!
The gathering of saints... no, this did not happen!
None of those things happened in 70AD! There is no way that Titus could have been the Antichrist and/or Abomination of Desolation!
And other events that scriptures show us will happen after the Tribulation:
The wrath of God (Revelation 15 and 16)
The battle of Armageddon (Revelation 16:16 and 19:19-21)
The destruction of antichrist and false prophet (they're thrown into the lake of fire in Revelation 19)
Satan chained in the bottomless pit for 1000 years (Revelation 20)
Jesus takes over ruling the world "with a rod of iron" and puts down the governments of men (Daniel 2, Daniel 7, Revelation 2, 11, 12, 19 and 20)
The 1000 year reign starts, the Millennial Reign of Christ (Revelation 20)
None of those things happened in 70AD! Again, there is no way that 70AD was fulfillment of the prophecies of the Day of the Lord.
Post Millennialists say that we're already past the 1000 year reign of Christ, as well. This would mean Jesus was on the earth reigning with a rod of iron
for 1000 years at some point in the last 2000 years. Do I even need to say anything about that? Did that happen and nobody knows it happened? Revelation 1:7
says that Jesus will come in the clouds and every eye shall see Him. We'd have some kind of record of that if it had happened already.
Another way some partial preterists try to explain away this problem is they say that the last 2000 years is the "tribulation", so none of the things that come after will have
happened yet. All we need to do is look at those specific
time frames given to us to know that it's a 3.5 year period, not 2000 years. And the idea that the tribulation is the last 2000 years does not make sense at all
when we read what was said about it in Daniel, Matthew and Mark; "Such as never was nor ever shall be". The Babylonian destruction of Israel and scattering of the Jews 2500 years ago at the
time of Daniel was equally bad for the Jews and Titus did not do anything more in 70AD than Nebuchadnezzar and his son did to make this meet that description.
No, that does not explain away the problems posed by the preterist and post millennial views.
And, in Revelation 19:20 we're shown that the Antichrist and False Prophet are cast
into the lake of fire. If Titus was the Antichrist, how could he be cast alive into the lake of fire after the Battle of Armageddon since he's been dead for almost 2000 years?
This definitely did not happen, nor could it be some future event if it were Titus.
But, if that's still not enough, let's talk more about Titus and the time frames involved and other scriptures that show us more information...
Another problem with the preterist view is that John wrote about a future Antichrist while he was imprisoned on the Isle of Patmos. All documentation points to
John being imprisoned there by the Emperor Domitian around 90AD. If this is true, it's literally impossible for Titus to have been this prophesied Antichrist
20 years before John was given the visions and wrote the book of Revelation.
John was on Patmos and penned Revelation AFTER 70AD, most likely around 90AD.
This is something people dispute, but even if it wasn't exactly 90AD, it was not before 70AD, and it would have to have been before that for preterism to be valid.
Domitian, Titus' brother, ruled after Titus starting in 81AD, and Domitian imprisoned John...
his successor Nerva release him - conclusive proof John was on Patmos after 70AD by a long shot!
Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 155-215) says that John returned from the isle of Patmos “after the tyrant was dead” (Who Is the Rich Man? 42), and Eusebius,
known as the “Father of Church History,” identifies the “tyrant” as Domitian (Ecclesiastical History III.23).
Even Moses Stuart, America’s most prominent preterist, admitted that the “tyrant here meant is probably Domitian.” Within this narrative, Clement further
speaks of John as an “old man.” If Revelation was written prior to A.D. 70, it would scarcely seem appropriate to refer to John as an old man, since he
would only have been in his early sixties at this time.
This refutes the preterist and post millennial view completely!
And, this helps us understand that the first part of the End Time discource in Matthew 24 is also -not-
what is the most widely accepted view (the preterist view).
The early church fathers never indicate that John wrote of events that had already happened in the book of Revelation. The preterist view was definitely not
something adopted early on, and if it were true then the men that lived so close to that time period would have known!
The spiritual conditions of the churches described in Revelation chapters two and three more readily harmonize with the late date.
Paul's ministry went into the 60's
Paul the aged (Philemon 1:9) wrote some of the epistles as an elder (Philemon, Colossians, Ephesians, then even later Timothy and Titus),
it was many years after 33AD when Christ appeared to him as a younger man, and after his many years of missionary travel. This would have
been approaching 70AD but there is no mention of anything remotely resembling the prophecies taking place, or that John was in Patmos or
that there were the Revelations before 70AD.
Gal 1-2 Paul says it was three years before he went to Jerusalem, and then 14 more years when he went back with Barnabas, but that was
the beginning of his ministry, because Barnabas and he had a falling out (Acts 15:39) and Paul continued with Silas in his ministry,
so it was at least 20 years after conversion that Paul was going about his continuing travels in ministry, in the 50's and 60's.
It was the late 60's that timelines place the end of his ministry and there is no mention of anything at all.
Why? Because John had not been imprisoned yet.
2 Thess Paul says do not be deceived in that the day of Christ is at hand... it was NOT going to be soon!
And, if you understand the prophecies of the Antichrist, you must be asking; Where and when did Titus implement the "Mark of the Beast"? The Bible clearly states
that this man will implement a "passport" type system, much like the vaccine passport that they're attempting now, where you'll be tracked electronically. Titus did
nothing of the sort! This will almost certainly be an RFID implementation with either a tattoo with RFID (they do this already in pets) or a chip under the skin.
Also, if Titus was the Antichrist, who was the False Prophet, and who were the Two Witnesses? There is no record of these men.
And if Titus was the Antichrist, when did he "confirm the covenant" (Dan 9:27)? This is widely accepted to be the covenant that God made with Abraham
defining the nation of Israel and its borders. How and when did Titus confirm this? There's no recorded event that matches this prophecy being fulfilled.
Dan 12:7 the "scattering of the power of the holy people" is not the Jews scattered in 70AD; The vast majority of Christians in 70AD were among the Gentiles, not many Jews were
believers and the Pharisees preached against Jesus.
2 Thes 2:3 - Paul records that there will be a falling away first and Antichrist will be revealed before the coming of the Lord and the gathering of the saints.
A falling away before 70AD?
Christianity was BOOMING around 70AD, and was very closely following the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. There was no falling away before 70AD.
Again, Titus stole many of the temple artifacts, but did not sit in the temple claiming to be God (2 Thess 2:4).
Revelation ends with prophecy of the New Jerusalem, and New Heavens and a New Earth where God Himself (Jesus Christ in human form) will dwell among us.
This has most certainly not happened yet.
The signs of the coming of Jesus and the End of the World
The disciples asked Jesus, when shall be the sign of your coming and the end of the world?
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
The Roman Empire maintained power into the 4th century, no massive wars at or around 70AD, a few rebellions at most...
Famines - no recorded events more than usual occurrences at that time...
Pestilences - no world-wide events, only local recorded, nothing of this magnitude...
Earthquakes - no more than usual recorded...
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
In the first couple centuries AD Christianity had spread greatly throughout the Roman Empire, but had not breached its borders much and
certainly had not spread to "all the world" as early as 70AD...
Click here to see graphs and data showing that all these things are actually happening now!
Conclusion: The signs Jesus gave that would herald His return did not happen prior to 70AD.
The 2000 year gap from prophetic events until now
There are quite a few scriptures that leap from certain events to a point in time far in the future, sometimes from one verse to the next!
Prophecy of the first 69 weeks (of years) of Daniels 70 weeks to the birth of Christ, then a leap to the End Time for the final week
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
-- about 2500 years total broken up as follows --
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
-- 483 years (the first 69 weeks) from the prophecy to Jesus --
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall
come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
-- 2000 years from Jesus to now (waiting for this final week of years) --
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the
oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Please note that when we read through this prophecy, it creates a distinction between the last week and the previous 69 weeks. The word "and" separates it
in the same way it does in Joel, shown in the next section below where Peter tells us that the first part has happened, but the second part never did, and
is a future event...
Prophecy of the pouring out of the Holy Ghost at Pentecost, and its fulfillment, then a leap to the End Time
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
-- 2000 years to now, waiting for these events which happen at the Day of the Lord when He returns --
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
-- Acts is the fulfillment of the prophecy in Joel --
Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
-- 2000 years to now, waiting for these events which happen at the Day of the Lord when He returns --
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
In Acts, only part of the prophecy came to pass. The Day of the Lord did not come. The sun was not turned to darkness, etc. It
jumps 2000 years with the word "and" separating it. This happens a lot in prophecy but much more obscured in other places since we don't have
Peter showing us that one part has already happened. This is because God wrote prophecy the same way He taught when He was here as a man; in parables.
Vision of the birth of Jesus, the attempt of Satan to kill Him through Herod, His ascention into heaven, then a leap to the End Time
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
-- 2000 years to now, waiting for these events which happen at the same time as the Abomination of Desolation --
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels...
Click here to see my video on Revelation chapter 12
Or, read my documentation on Revelation chapter 12
Prophecy of the destruction of the Temple, which happened in 70AD, then a leap to the End Time
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
v3 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
He tells them all the signs discussed above that herald His coming and the End of the World --
-- 2000 years to now, waiting for the Abomination of Desolation which happen in the middle of the final 7 years -- Remember we saw in Daniel 12 above that this
event is proven to happen in the last 3.5 years. It specifically says this, so we KNOW that there's a 2000 year gap! --
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven,
and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
This is another place where we can know absolutely 100% that there's a gap because it specifically says that it will be 3.5 years from this event
to the "end of these things" in Daniel 12, as shown above. We know that it will be at the very end that this abomination of desolation happens.
Prophecy of Jews denial, beating, and murder of Jesus, then a leap to the End Time
Luk 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
-- 2000 years to now, just as it was in Soddom and Gomorrah, the Western World and Israel are just the same now and the Day of the Lord is almost here --
Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Prophecy of the Media/Persian Empire being taken over by Alexander the Great, and then the break-up of the Greek empire into 4 parts, then a leap to the End Time
Dan 8:22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
- The Grecian empire lasted until the Romans defeated them in 197 BC. -
-- 2200 years --
Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
- This is the Antichrist -
Just like Daniel 8, Daniel 11 shows the four Greek kingdoms being broken up, and then v6 "in the end of years"...
-- 2200 years --
- between v4 and v5 is this 2200 years -
- chronicles of kings in the end of years, to the Antichrist in v21 -
Prophecy of the succession of kings from the time of Babylon to the return of Jesus
Daniel 2 From the time of Nebuchadnezzar and succession of kings to the "stone" (Jesus' return)
-- 2500 years total from the prophecy to now --
Click here to see details on this prophetic vision from Daniel
I've given you a lot of information to study and process, but if that's still not enough, here's a tad more...
Most people do not subscribe to preterism completely, but most prophecy teachers have partial preterism mixed in one way or another. Make sure you don't believe
these doctrines unless they fit with every single part of prophecy. If even one little thing doesn't fit with the prophecy, then it can't be true!
Remember that Jesus laid it out in a timeline for us that is very specific, detailing what would happen, and then this will happen next, etc...
When we see the Abomination of Desolation (the Antichrist sitting in the Temple claiming to be God)
Then will be great tribulation (this will last for 3.5 years while the Antichrist is in power)
Immediately after the tribulation the sun, moon and stars will go dark, and Jesus will come in the clouds with power and glory
as the lighting flashes across he sky, and every eye will see Him
Then He'll send His angels to gather His elect (the saints)
Then He'll pour out His wrath on the world and it will end with the Battle of Armageddon where He will take over the world and rule with a rod of iron for 1000 years
Then He'll create a New Heaven and New Earth and eternity will begin where He will dwell among the saints forever
We know absolutely that there will be a 3.5 year period where these things happen:
- The saints will be hunted by the Antichrist
- A scattering of the power of the holy people (the saints)
- The sacrifice and oblation will be ceased
- The abomination in the temple
- Jerusalem will be tread under foot by Gentiles for 42 months
- The Antichrist will sit in the temple claiming to be god
- This period of time will be the tribulation/time of trouble
- The rule of the Antichrist and False Prophet
- The wrath of satan
- The time of the two witnesses
Some very pointed questions to ask anyone who believes in Preterism or Post Milennialism
For a much more detailed Timeline of Events, click here